Patrician McCarthy – Mien Shiang Face Reading – Ep. #45

(For clarity, this is Episode #45, not Episode #46. I goofed during recording and didn’t catch it until after publishing. Apologies for any confusion.)

Patrician McCarthy - Mien Shiang

Mien Shiang Face Reading tells you much about yourself and others.

Patrician McCarthy, author of The Face Reader: Discover Anyone’s True Personality Through Taoist Chinese Face Reading, is the West’s leading authority on Mien Shiang—Chinese Face Reading and Medical Facial Diagnosis. She is a renowned expert and practitioner of Taoist Psychology, the study of behavior and personality according to the Taoist Five Elements.

She founded The Mien Shiang Institute in Santa Monica, California in 2000 to teach the Taoist Five Element Theory, Taoist Psychology, and Mien Shiang. She was the first to translate the ancient art and science of Mien Shiang for the mainstream public.

Mien Shiang can help you in your personal search for self. By looking in the mirror and studying your face, you can develop a profound understanding of your true nature. Identifying your true nature help first to recognize your inborn gifts and challenges, and then how to balance them to live your life, every single day, to the fullest.  – Patrician McCarthy

Your face tells the story of who you are. It can’t lie.

Patrician has written extensively about the Taoist Five Elements and Mien Shiang. She’s been featured in such diverse publications as Allure, The Huffington Post, Cincinnati Enquirer, Natural Health Magazine, Brigitte, Woman’s World Magazine, and; she has presented at various forums such as 99U Conference, IONS Conferences, Renaissance Weekends, New York Open Center, and The Committee of 200.

Ideas covered in this episode:

  • How Patrician learned Mien Shiang
  • The Mind/Body/Spirit connection in Traditional Chinese Medicine
  • If you’re out of emotional balance, it’ll affect your physical health
  • What can be learned about someone by observing his/her facial features
  • What area of the face relates to creativity and fertility
  • What is 5 Element Theory and how it relates to the face and personality
  • Elemental Personalities:
    • Wood Element people
    • Fire Element people
    • Earth Element people
    • Metal Element people
    • Water Element people
  • Patrician’s books
  • How 5 Element Theory can be applied in the Corporate setting
  • Patrician’s definition of foxy

She has served on the faculties and boards of universities and colleges of Traditional Chinese  (and Oriental) Medicine, and in conjunction with a prestigious University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, established the first medical certificate program in Mien Shiang. For thirty years, Patrician has taught workshops, seminars, and retreats for individuals and groups, medical students, health practitioners, lawyers, Olympic athletes, and corporations including Google, Nivea, Procter & Gamble, Old Navy, Gap, Mattel, KPMG, Turner Broadcasting, and many other Fortune 500 companies.

You can find more information and even schedule a personal face reading session with Patrician at

Show Transcript

Terry:                                         00:00                       Yes, indeed. You found us again. You’re listening to episode 46 of The Get Foxy Show.

Patrician:                               00:07                       Hello and welcome to The Get Foxy Show with natural beauty expert Terry Fox, where we talk alternative health, natural beauty and passionate living

Terry:                                         00:21                       Man! 46 episodes already. We’re just rocking and rolling here at The Get Foxy Show. Yes, my name is Terry Fox. I am an aesthetic and facial acupuncture expert and your host for The Get Foxy Show. And welcome again to the podcast. I am blessed beyond belief to get the opportunity to bring you some of the best experts in holistic health, natural beauty and passionate living so that you can tap into your innate femininity and cultivate that unique personal power that I call your inner fox. Because when you’re able to tap into that, you can have an impact on those around you or on your world. Be that your family, your friends, your business, your intimate relationships. This is the show that can help you get that information. You need to make that impact because when you’re feeling foxy, you’ve got the power to be an amazing entrepreneur, mother, wife, or lover.

Terry:                                         01:30                       Now, if this is your first time listening to the show, welcome. Thank you for listening. Feel free to check out our facebook page or our website. The Get Foxy And I’ve also started posting some on Instagram. I’m, I’m brand new to Instagram. You can find me @acufoxtcm. That is my instagram handle. Acu, F, O x, TCM, Acu, Fox, TCM, and you can see what I’m posting there as well. But uh, yeah, if you like what we’re doing here, you can check those things out. You can also check us out on Patreon become a Vulpinista VIP and join our Get Foxy community over there. And we’re also, of course, found wherever podcasts, uh, big podcasts are available, itunes, apple podcasts, Google play, stitcher, Iheartradio, spotify we’re there. So thank you for finding us and taking a listen. I have to admit for this episode, I was kind of like a little giddy fanboy.

Terry:                                         02:34                       I get to bring you today. Patrician McCarthy. And Patrician is the author of the face reader, discover anyone’s true personality through Taoist Chinese face reading. And she is one of the West’s leading authorities on Mien Shiang, which is Chinese face reading and medical facial diagnosis. She’s a renowned expert practitioner of Taoist Psychology, which is the study of behavior and personality according to Taoist five element theory. And she founded the Mien Shiang Institute in Santa Monica, California in 2000 and she was one of the first people to teach this Taoist five element theory and Taoist, psychology and Mien Shiang. And she served on the faculties and boards of several universities and colleges of traditional Chinese medicine and established the first medical certificate program in Mien Shiang. Patrician for the past 30 years has taught workshops, seminars, and retreats for individuals and groups, medical students, healthcare practitioners, lawyers, Olympic athletes and corporations, including Google, Nivea, Procter and gamble, old navy, gap, Mattel, Turner Broadcasting, and many other fortune 500 companies.

Terry:                                         03:52                       She’s written extensively on Taoist five elements and Mien Shiang. And she’s been featured in several different major publications such as Allure magazine, the Huffington Post, Cincinnati Enquirer, natural health magazine, Brigitte, Women’s World magazine, and And she’s presented at various forums such as the 99 u conference, the ions, conferences, renaissance weekends, New York Open Center, and the committee of 200. so this woman is so accomplished in the field of traditional Chinese medicine and Chinese medicine face reading. I had to get her on the show and I’m so happy that she agreed to do so. I think this interview’s going to bring you so much value. So it is my pleasure to introduce to you Patrician McCarthy.

Terry:                                         04:57                       Okay. We are live with Ms Patrician McCarthy. Thank you so very much for taking the time today. Things are getting busy for you. That’s what she said is we were getting ready for this chat and so you know, I got to say I thank you and honor you for making the time to be able to chat with me and thus enlighten others about this amazing thing called Mien Shiang or Chinese face reading. How in the world did you get into this as, as you, as you can see, although if on the podcast you’re probably not able to see Patrician, but I don’t believe she’s of Chinese heritage. So how in the world did you get into this kind of work?

Patrician:                               05:49                       Well, that’s an interesting thing. Um, maybe right now. Um, and this day and age 2000, almost 19, it wouldn’t be so unusual to have someone who’s not Chinese doing what I do because I’ve been teaching this for 25 years. So in the United States and Europe and South America. Um, but then when I first started many, many years ago, it was very, very unusual. Um, it’s face reading, Mien Shiang face analysis is actually, it’s a tool of Chinese medicine. So it’s simply one practice that healers, acupuncturists or doctors as a Chinese medicine, um, incorporate in the, in their practices. And in China, excuse me, families pass down information from father to oldest son who’s going to follow in his footsteps. And all of these medicines are very similar, but they’re all a little different because it’s that lineage and it depends on which part of China, rural China or urban China that they were in. So it’s a little different. So you’re going to find anyone who practice who was still, you know, coming from that lineage, medicine, medicine can have to do something a little different and maybe not share the information as much because that’s what their family does and that’s what makes them so special.

Patrician:                               07:14                       The reason I got into this as I, I met a gentleman many, many years ago, I wasn’t looking for this, you know, I was looking to write a book, um, that took place in Tucson, Arizona where had just moved with my husband and he was going to do an internship in medicine, western medicine. And we ended up in this very odd place, you know, this desert coming from New York City. And I was fascinated by the area and I became fascinated by the ideas that there had been, um, a lot of Chinese immigrants in the area at the end of the 1800s because of the railroads, you know, like they were all over the pockets of the United States were left there after the, after the railroads were built. So there was a community here in Tucson and I was interested in that time period and I happened to meet the great uncle of one of the families here and he started sharing some of the information with me and mainly because I would take him out for rides out in the desert and, and he didn’t know anyone, you know, he didn’t have children.

Patrician:                               08:23                       He came from Taiwan and came to live here. So he just started teaching me things up. Basically geomancy which I’d never heard of before and what we now call Feng Shui. Yes, he had heard that I, you know, this was in the 70s and I didn’t know. Anyway, I had to go back to New York and go to the New York City Library to fing this much information about it. So Mr Ping started telling me about this and then he started telling me things about myself by pointing to my face and everything and it just was so odd. But the fact is, what happened at that time is so many of the people, the Chinese people who lived in the United States at that time who were immigrants very first generation and who had practiced medicine in China. Their children weren’t interested in following in their footsteps.

Patrician:                               09:17                       They were going to western schools and they wanted to go to western universities. And I just came along at the right time when I wanted to learn because I was so fascinated by Mr Ping. And I think the only reason, I used to tease him, that he even told me is because he knew I would never do anything about it. I didn’t have a family backing behind me and I was a woman. And it simply wasn’t, nobody in this country would be interested. So, um, he then sent me to, some teachers in New York because he got very lonely after a couple of years and moved to Taiwan. And I started teaching, uh, learning with them. And it was the same thing. It was the same thing. But we’ll teach you because our children don’t want to learn, but we know you will never do anything with it. So I have to worry.

Patrician:                               10:05                       So I stayed in apprentice mode for several years just learning and not really sure what I would do. And then I was invited to teach in Chinatown in Los Angeles where I’d moved and then I was invited to teach at Yo San University. And it just became more accepted that even though I wasn’t Chinese from a family who had been doing this for two or 3000 years, that I knew what I was doing and I knew my subject well and I started teaching and practicing. But it took a long time. I was an apprentice for a very long time, which is a wonderful way to learn.

Terry:                                         10:43                       That’s not really the way that we go about it here in I guess in the West for the most part anymore. There’s, there’s not that, uh, long term association between the teacher and the student anymore. It’s all very much many students to one teacher and you’re running through as much. So I’m sure you were probably pretty close to Mr Ping.

Patrician:                               11:10                       I was, I was, he was, you know, it’s an unusual relationship. I was a very young woman, my early twenties and he was, you know, an older gentleman and neither of us spoke the language very well, but enough that we could communicate and he was just very lovely. I’m very charming and I was hooked. I saw how smart he was and I couldn’t figure out how he did those things. And it took, it was not easy. Part of my apprenticeship took a long time because of language barriers too, you know, it was, it was, but what a wonderful way to learn. What about the patience, the patience of the teacher and the patience of the student. My students don’t have that same patience. Anymore. Most of them, you know, are from western culture and they go, how do you do that? Show us how, you know, we want to know how to go. We’ll get to that, but we’ll get to it probably in a semester or two. That took me quite a bit longer. They both have their advantages

Terry:                                         12:16                       With The Get Foxy Show, we talk holistic health, natural beauty and passionate living. And I really feel like this sort of work encompasses a fair amount of that. And especially in the, in the natural beauty side of things. When you’re looking at someone’s face, what exactly are you looking for and how do you, how do you, um, determine their, their personality just by facial features?

Patrician:                               12:50                       Well, it’s interesting too, I’ll do a little back step for a second. In Chinese medicine is based on mind, body and spirit, right? So a lot of western practices, you’re going to look at the mind and the emotions from psychology, right. And physical medicine is going to be by your MD being diagnosed by your MD and prescribed and so on, so forth. Your spiritual wellbeing, uh, to a religious or spiritual teacher perhaps. So in Chinese medicine they don’t differentiate. Uh, so when I look at someone’s face, I’m looking at the balance of the mind, body, Spirit, and it says, you know, I remember when I first heard it sounds a little woo woo to a lot of people when they first hear it. But when you get used to the idea and you accept that you, if you’re out of balance in your, in your emotions, it’s going to affect your physical health.

Patrician:                               13:46                       And if we all live long enough, we know that that’s happened when we’re rundown, we’re tired. We’re spiritually, you know, exhausted, you know, from a big event or just a lot of smaller events. Sometimes people this time of year, you know, it will, all the little things will just wear them down. You know, that your body is going to be susceptible to illnesses and vice versa. Very few people have physical ailments and are not, not, you know, um, emotionally affected or even spiritually tried. So we know it. But we were, we aren’t used to thinking about that. So when I talk about looking at someone’s face to determine personality, I’m also determined the state of their overall health. And there’s no such thing as looking at someone space to tell them how their physical health is without bringing in the emotional and the mental challenges or, or sometimes the gifts, you know, that, that come to them and how we received them or don’t receive them.

Patrician:                               14:49                       And also the spiritual wellbeing. So, um, I can determine when you say, what do I look at it in the face, I’m looking at all three of those things. Okay. And without consciously saying, let me look at the mind, let me look at the body. And so on it, it’s all one. And that’s a thing that some of my students have a hard time beginning to look at. And then suddenly they’re, they’re just doing it, you know, it becomes natural. Anything that’s different might take a little bit of time. So what I look for in the face is general balance. Does the face do them? What are the emotions that show on someone’s face? If I’m looking at someone’s space? And I said, well, they have fabulous skin and it’s taught and it says that there’s an incredible amount of tension coming through in the eyes and the jaws and other places.

Patrician:                               15:38                       I know a lot, you know, and it’s not necessarily that they’ve had plastic surgery, you know, they might just have the gift of having nice, taut skin. But it’s one will, one will give a hint to the other. So I’m looking in general that energy, like we said, what do I naturally see of the, the balance. Um, but I actually look at the size and shape of every single feature. Every single feature tells us something about the health of the person and the personality, which is part of the health. How our health manifests itself? And I mean, I start out very broadly. Even the shape of someone’s face can tell us something about them. And, um, so it can get very minute all the colors that change on the face when you’re talking to someone and you can see, you know, oh my goodness, well not you, but I can say I was talking to somebody the other day and as I’m talking to her and we’re having a skype, um, reading, suddenly her lip, upper lip got very, very white when we were talking about something and I, you know, let her finish what she was saying.

Patrician:                               16:51                       They say, I want to bring you back to this because your upper lip just get white. And white means frozen. And this particular area it worked we were talking about, um, with her creativity. And she just sort of was glossing over it. But I thought, no, that, that’s a big hint. And it funny, that same area on the lip, it also tells about fertility. So it’s kind of interesting is that fertility and creativity, we look at the same places on the face, but it’s not that unusual when you think about it. So I was able to bring her back to her creativity if she felt that was frozen. She happened to be an artist. A graphic artist and a very big, um, you know, a company and you know, sure enough that that had a lot to do with why she wasn’t feeling well. She wasn’t creating in the way that she needed to. And she felt that she had to just cut that off and stifle it. Yeah. So just that one little thing could tell me a lot about what’s going on with her. Now you, it would be a little harder with that mustache, but they’re all different ways that we can look.

Terry:                                         18:07                       Well that is fascinating just in the fact that, there’s such a mind body connection and that’s not something that we’re used to in, in our culture. And this is, this is very similar to some of the ideas that I’ve been reading from. Uh, there’s a gal in California by the name of Doctor Zana Hackett who has a personality assessment called the ultimate life tool. And it’s based in physiometrics or well, that’s what she calls it physiometrics. But it’s the same idea in, in Chinese medicine that our bodies manifest in a specific way. And for us, you know, it relates to the five elements and those elements then give us insights about various things going on with the person’s mind, body and spirit. And so we show up in this world, in these bodies that, you know, can, can kind of be related to vehicles. Almost some of us show up as Lamborghinis. Some of us show up as pickup trucks. You know, some of us are just built stockier and we’re not meant to be running races were meant for that long haul. Whereas others are leaner, sleeker. They’re meant, they’re meant for that race. And it’s, we all have this natural way that we are built. And I find it fascinating that we can look at the face and be able to read into that. It’s really fascinating stuff.

Patrician:                               19:54                       It is. And I’m glad you brought up at this point to the five elements because, um, your, your audience may or may not know from some of the podcasts that you do and, and what you do, you’re an acupuncturist and you, you deal with the five elements in your diagnosis and the way you look at people and you observe them and how you come to your different diagnosis, whether it’s mind, body, Spirit. So maybe I’ll just review for, uh, the people were talking, uh, um, the five elements. So what I’m looking for when I’m reading the face, right? I, I’m just not looking to see how’s your creativity doing, how are your lungs doing? Um, you know, what, what’s the balance between, um, you know, what you take in and give out by looking at your eyes, the energy and the, and the Qi and the Shen there, all those things I’m looking at.

Patrician:                               20:48                       But you know, those are all very separate type of things and organs, or emotions. But I’m really doing in certain way is trying to determine which element that particular person is most dominant in and which element they’re deficient in. Because that’s going to tell me a lot. That’s what going to tell you a lot as an acupuncture, as an acupuncturist and your work. So the, um, to define it for your, your audience is we look at able to determine if there would element fire element, earth element, metal element or water element personality. And each one of those elements that have been broken down has a specific personality traits associated with them. They also have specific organs. So, um, yeah, when I teach medical people, I don’t teach them about the wood personality. I teach them about the liver personality. And when I talk about fire, we’re talking about the heart personality, um, earth, the spleen and stomach metal, the lung personality and water, the kidney personality.

Patrician:                               22:04                       But you know, I found out very quickly nobody wanted, wanted to hear, you know, you’re very, you’re a spleen personality or you’re a liver, so going back to what those, you know, ancient Taoists, they were very smart when they use the metaphors. So it’s much easier to hear you’re a wood personality or you’re fire personality then bringing those organs into it. But what we do know is that those organs are associated and that there are emotions associated with each of those organs in Chinese medicine. So if I look at someone and I see they have a lot of wood features, you know, I look at some of the say, oh those eyebrows, very dominant. Um, well she may be or long and bringing a lot of energy. Ooh. And they have brow bones and someone said, oh, there’s a lot of wood energy. So I already know that because the wood element, the emotion associated with wood is anger.

Patrician:                               23:00                       I know right away when I see that person, when I see dominant wood features on their face that one of their challenges, and yes, gifts is anger. And that doesn’t mean they walk around angry and that they’re, you know, always in a rage. But when a stressful situation happens, their immediate feeling, their immediate motion is anger. I don’t know how they deal with it, you know, because I haven’t known them their whole life. That may be true. They may have worked on that a lot and used the anger for something that really benefits them. But it’s probably a challenge. Right? And so I always like to remind people that the other side of anger, same side coin, two sides, you can’t have one without the other is passion for life. So when I work with that person who has the dominant, wood I try and help them get in touch with passion, their passion for life and using the anger in ways maybe to be protective but not to motivate themselves.

Patrician:                               24:08                       A lot of people, I’m sure you run into this all the time, people who have a lot of wood, when you see well, what do you use that anger for? What, what’s a good for? And they’ll, they’ll talk about, well it motivates me. Ok well, one of my things in my job is to help say maybe you could use the passion to motivate yourself and look at things in a different way. And as long as we were talking about wood, I’ll just very briefly mention, the emotions associated with fire. And so I’m looking to see how much fire person has in their, in their face. If I see a lot of fire, which a lot of points in the face, red complexions, no matter what the race or ethnicity, there’s a reddishness. Um, just like I said, those points, all the energy goes up, low points in the top of the eyebrows, lips, the nose, very up and even the top of the ears, a lot of fire.

Patrician:                               25:02                       So I know that that person’s emotion associated with it is joy. And everyone says, I want to be fire because they have the one emotion that’s joy. Unfortunately in our western world it got mistranslated. It means overjoy, sometimes. You know what other people might say, manic-y or that we call scattered emotions. So it’s lots of hard energy, lots of joy, but it comes out like this a lot and they can’t pull it in easily. Right? So I try and work with them with the joy, with the love. The other side of the overjoy is really being able to connect with the heart and just how to pull that energy in and you know, and what I might find on their face for some other traits to go on in our circle, some earth traits, right? So the earth traits I’m going to find in the face are kind of fleshy.

Patrician:                               26:00                       You can be 20 pounds under weight and you’re still going to have certain fleshy areas if you’re earth. The end of the, the tip of the nose that the ear lobes, the chin, very often that area right under the eyes is just, there’s a little bit more fleshiness just like there is on the rest of the body and those people worry. The association is worried when they’re under stress. The first thing that’s going to happen to them is they’re going to go into that state of worry and it’s hard to bring that in just like it’s hard to bring the scattered fiery emotions in. Sometimes it’s hard to stop that whirling, you know that whirlpool, whirlpool of worry. And to stop that, I try and remind them the other side of their worry is a great sympathy and you know, nobody gives a hug, nobody can listen to your problems like an earth person. They’re grounded, they’re caring, they’re nurturing. And what I try and do is help them do the same for themselves because earth people are really good at giving that up. Really, really not so good at asking for it.

Terry:                                         27:12                       That is true. I’ve seen that a lot in my patients

Patrician:                               27:16                       We always say to the earth people, you know, one of the things I can tell by looking at your face is you have a hard time digesting your food or your emotions and your thoughts and they’re all related, right? And we look at it in the same area and this area by see a lot of yellow on that for I know it’s digestion. I might not know right away what they’re having a hard time digesting, probably all three of their earth, you know, that type of thing. So, you know, I help them. Hopefully, you know, to, to be sympathetic and to ask for themselves.

Patrician:                               27:52                       Some metal people, I look at them and I can tell that they’re metal very often just the opposite of the earth personally is that they can be 20 or 40 pounds underweight and they’re still going to have the flesh. A metal person could be 20 or 40 pounds overweight, but they tend not to be. Because they eat very sparingly. But if, if they are, there’s hardly any padding on their face. Very top skin, high cheek bones, um, high eyebrows, very much what we used to say, um, like the country club look. Very elegant, a very proper, um, appearance. And appearance is very important to metal people. And they really do believe as they look, they do behave, that there was a place for everything and everything is place and including emotions and behavior. Okay. So these are people who when they’re under stress, their emotion, their main emotion is grief.

Patrician:                               28:54                       And that’s a hard one to explain too. It’s not that they’re going around like the, you know, I must take to my, you know, to my fainting couch because I mean the state of grief. A student explained it to me several years ago, about 20 years ago in a way that I felt I could help teach. And I said, will you explain to me and the rest of the class what the, you nod right on it and you understand what I say about the meaning of group. And he said, I feel like I was born, when I was born. I came into this world missing something. And that’s it. It’s that kind of grief. You can’t explain it. You don’t know what it is. But it’s just that, and I go here like the lungs, which is, you know, the, the, the, um, organs with metal, that sort of emptiness, that coolness, that breeze.

Patrician:                               29:45                       And so when they’re under stress, they go to that vulnerable place, a little bit of the emptiness. And so therefore, a lot of people think, um, metal people, they are cool and aloof, but they’re not cold and uncaring. They’re very, very caring. They don’t show it. And sometimes they don’t experience it. Remember we talked about that white area that frozen? That’s a metal thing where we say cutting off. How do you know if the feelings are cutting off behavior?

Patrician:                               30:18                       So yeah, the last that we look for looking for personality type is the water. So if I look at someone and I say in some ways they don’t have a defined shape of their face. These lower cheeks righ here are full. Yeah. Dreamy eyes, usually big eyes and sort of very slow seductive movements, behaviors. The way they look. The way they turn their face, they’re just home.

Patrician:                                            30:50                       It is very, you know that they’re looking and thinking and studious. And that was lots of blue tones, lots of blue tones on their face. Nice, good determined jaws. And that person I know right away, if they have a lot of, of water, uh, features that their first emotion, they go to when they’re under stress is fear. It just doesn’t mean they’re going to be paralyzed with fear. Because again, like when we refer to the liver or the wood personality, we know it’s going to be anger. We just don’t know how long they’re staying in it. Okay. So they could be paralyzed by fear or they have learned to work through it. That’s probably, most people have water. It’s going to be a challenge, their whole life. So again, I want to remind them the other side of their coin of fear is wisdom. And where does that come from? Fear, that fear of what if this happens? What if I run into traffic? What while you think about it and you come up with some good answers very often. Right. Um, and it makes you wise. And so my job in your job with your patients and clients is to help them get to the point of using the wisdom that they’ve garnered and using their, what they thought of as their challenges, as their gifts. Yeah.

Terry:                                         32:17                       That is information that I believe can be found in your books. Correct? You’re, you’re an author of multiple books and this is pretty much summed up in the face reader. Correct?

Patrician:                               32:32                       It’s a lot of it. The face reader is really sometimes I think is one of my students said the other day, yeah, that’s an intense book. I wasn’t signing up for all that. He said basically he wanted what I just told you, you know, and you know, so you can go in, I think there’re like 47 different things that you can tell from the nose and you know, if you’re really going to be a practitioner that’s a good book for it and it gives you that over all. So yes you can, you can learn a lot from the face reader. Probably more than a lot of people want to know. And I find a lot of people read the people who are not practitioners, right? But the people who want it for self help, they read in general, they want to know a lot of it.

Patrician:                                            33:17                       You know, what’s my nose say that me? What’s my eyes and my eyebrows say? But they’re really fascinated by the personality. So I just wrote a book which will be out in a few weeks where I concentrate on the personality. And don’t tell you what your nose says cause that books are already out there. If you want to know everything about the nose. And the chin and, and how every single tiny little line means the face reader is a good book. But you really want to know about the personality and the behaviors of the five elements. That’s the book I just wrote. It’s called in your element taoist psychology. And even though taoist psychology is part of the title, because that’s what it is, it’s behavior. You know, we’re looking at the five behavioral group types. Um, I made it fun and accessible for anyone who’s interested in learning about their personality.

Patrician:                               34:11                       I talk about in each section. So in the, in the one I talked about what food did that like what movies do they like. What books do they like? What architecture do they like? What did they do their homes look like? Where are they most comfortable? I think they’re 25 different categories for each of the 5. And it’s, you know, it’s fun, it’s informative. Um, I use a lot of anecdotes about different people and situations and how they, they either thrive or don’t thrive in certain environments. And how, what you can do to make yourself more comfortable. And what you can do to those who love, care about work with and realize how different we all are. Because you know what happens all the time, I think I, you and I were talking before, I do a lot of corporate work. And I go into corporations and the big problem I have with the teams is the team leaders generally are trying to make everyone on the team behave and think like they do and execute their work.

Patrician:                               35:19                       And when I point out the different personalities and for example, we talked about digesting for earth personality, okay, let’s say an earth personalities on your team and you’ve got a lot of wood which you do when you know that. Okay. And your what? So you’re goal oriented. You’re focused. You want to get things done and you’ve got that earth person who is not goal oriented, focused, and wants to get things done immediately. They need to digest the information. They literally need to feel how it feels. Completely opposite ways of doing work. One is not more valuable than the other. But they each feel that there is. And so it’s my job to go in and say how each of these people work. The fire person has to have some kind of fun. The earth person needs to digest. The metal person has to be very clear. They don’t want, they don’t want it. All those details, just what pertains to that project. And the water person it a dream about it. Needs to decide, let me go on this tributary, let me see what this is. All the what ifs and then come to a great conclusion. And you can do everything in your pos. You know the in, in with all your talents to make everyone to be like you. That’s not going to happen. Right? So I can, you know, I love to work with these teams when they go, oh, that’s person who’s not fighting me by not being there, they’re being them. And so introducing that we are so intrinsically different. And each of our challenges at each of our gifts are really valuable. But we can, we can make it work with each other. We just have to learn.

Terry:                                            37:09                       You Bet.

Patrician:                      37:11                       Yeah. It, but it’s not so easy, right. For people to think it, you know, all that. It’s not just in corporate, it’s in families.

Terry:                                         37:20                       Yes. This is definitely something that would apply to your work relationships, your family relationships, even your own interpersonal relationship with your, with yourself. And learning Okay Well, yeah, I’m, I’ve got these elements that are primarily within my constitution and so yeah, if I learned more about the wood element and oh my goodness, I’m also fire element aspected. And how, how do those play with one another. And how can I support the wood and the fire in my personality instead of stifling it? You can learn so much about yourself. And that is where you can really start getting into, uh, what, what I’ve want this show to be helping you cultivate that unique personal power that you have that I call your inner fox. But it’s just that it’s that unique personal power that you are born with, that you go, okay, yes, I know myself, I’m confident in myself and I’m able to go out there and do the things that are best for me. And so this is, this is great information for people to have. So thank you so much for putting that out there. I need to ask you the, the big question because this is the get foxy show patrician what does foxy and being foxy mean to you?

Patrician:                               38:55                       Well, you know, I’m old. I come from a time where being was not such a good thing, right? It was started like just being physically attractive, but maybe sly and vixenish and so on, so forth. But you and I talking and corresponding in the lesson. Well then certainly, no, that’s not Terry’s version of it. So I’m going to ask you afterwards too, because I’m curious, but what it means to, so I started thinking about what I, I know what it doesn’t mean, you know, and what, what does it mean? And so I thought, all right, if we’re talking, if you know, we looked up the definition of foxy in and thought during that whether it’s the 60’s or 70’s and you know, that vixen like and very physically attractive person and that sly type of thing, people getting what they need or want really. Being foxy to me now is beautiful at mind, body spirit.

Patrician:                               39:54                       And you’re saying to that natural beauty, you know, it’s, um, I, oh, I’m, I was talking to one of my class, my classes a couple of weeks ago and saying I had just, you know, agreed to the date to come on do this. And we were talking about what foxy is, and so on. And what beauty is and external and internal beauty, and this, this fella said, you know who Jimmy Duranti is? And I said, actually, I do. Now Jimmy Duranti was an entertainer in our grandparents or great grandparents times. I mean, it was really a long, long time ago. Um, and um, he was not a pretty boy, right. If I remember right, yes. And just, you know, and like he said, he said, he said, my grandmother was so in love with Jimmy Duranti and he said, and then my mother found out who she, who he was. And he said, I looked at those pictures and I said something like, well, he’s odd looking or he’s not handsome or something like that.

Patrician:                                            40:57                       And he said, both his mother and grandmother turned around and said, it’s an inner beauty and it shines out. And you know, so we had, we ended up with a whole class talking about inner and outer beauty. And it’s so true. We’ve all known people who have that outer beauty who were not drawn to it all because of their inner maybe anger or or misplaced anger or jealousy or whatever. And so that foxy to me means someone who has the confidence or has learning or once learned to have the confidence of who they are to be beautiful. And in using the inner beauty that we know is always going to glow outside. If you have that inner beauty, it’s going to show one way or the other and people are going to pick it up. And I think the foxiest, people that we probably know are those who are comfortable with who they are. And those people are kind and generous, gracious and giving. And that’s the kind of foxy beauty I think that shows. That shows. Also, there’s something when I think about that fox. There’s a little shyness, right? So maybe to me the kind of foxy beauty that’s out there is, is the kind of person who just feels competent enough in loving themselves. That they don’t need to be loved by everyone else, just those who matter. And that they probably want to matter too. So that’s what I think about foxy.

Terry:                                         42:36                       I think that is fantastic. Patrician where can people find out more about you and your books?

Patrician:                               42:45                       Ah, okay. Well probably my website right now and I’m going to put all that information on in a, we did a week or two because then we’ll know the publishing date, but the note, so it’s um,

Terry:                                         43:03                       And I will have all that on the show notes too. That way, you know, uh, learning to spell Mien Shiang is a little difficult. So you can just go to The Get Foxy and we’ll have it right there in the show notes for you as well.

Patrician:                               43:19                       Thank you for that plug. I want to tell you one more book that will probably be out in the summer or the fall. Because it’s, it ties in you and I can talk about that a little bit. I’ll send you some galleys. Um, when we talk about natural beauty, it’s putting your best face forward and how to change the way your features look and your facelift without plastic surgery, without injecting botox, without doing anything but sent maybe a little makeup, maybe the way you wear your hat, maybe the way you wear your facial hair or your hair. And if you want to emphasize certain features in business or maybe in love, it’s a good guide and a fun way of learning how to do that. And bringing energy and good Qi to your face without resorting to something that in the long run it’s going to hurt you.

Terry:                              44:09                       And this is something you wrote. Yes. Fantastic. We’ll definitely need to have the link to that as well.

Patrician:                               44:17                       Yes, I’ll send it to you. I think you’ll, you’ll be interested in it.

Terry:                              44:20                       Excellent. Patrician we are pretty much out of time. I would love to have you on again to chat more because you made my job so easy today.

Patrician:                               44:35                       My Assistant Michelle that you just don’t start interviewing him. Because I’m always so curious. So, um, I think I did pretty good. I let I let you interview me.

Terry:                                         44:48                       All right. I sure appreciate it. Well thank you so much for taking the time today and I will look forward to chatting with you again sometime in the future.

Patrician:                               44:58                       Me Too. Thank you very much Terry. Uh Huh.

Terry:                                         45:04                       Yes, I did let today’s episode go a little bit long just because Patrician had so much good information. So here’s what I’m gonna say. Please check out her website, And that’s m I, e n s h, I,N , g man, you can check out patricians books there as well as book a face reading with her if that’s something you’re interested in. Thank you once again for taking the time to listen to another episode of The Get Foxy show. Thank you. Bless you. Go out there and stay foxy.

Ann:                                            45:42                       You’ve been listening to the get foxy show with natural beauty expert Terry Fox. If you have questions, comments, or would like additional information about this episode, check out the get foxy or interact with us directly on The Get foxy show facebook page. Thanks for listening and stay foxy.

Terry:                                         46:12                       If you’ve enjoyed what you have just heard here on the get foxy show, please feel free to leave us a review on apple podcasts, Google play, stitcher, tune in, spotify, or Iheartradio. And if you’ve enjoyed the show, do please share it. Sharing is caring. Let us know and let others know what you think. Good, bad, or ugly. I’m always looking for ideas on how to make this show better and so that way it can serve you better, so please don’t hesitate to give us feedback, reviews. If you’d like to suggest is show guest, email us, Terry, t, e r r [email protected] Thanks for listening.

Ep. #33 – Lise Ode – Mom Loves Baking

Lise Ode - Mom Loves Baking’s Lise Ode is helping us get foxy in the kitchen!

Lise Ode is the author of the popular food blog, Mom Loves Baking.  She loves creating sweet treats, taking lots of pictures and sharing the step-by-step photos and videos on her website as well as her social channels, Instagram, Pinterest, Facebook and Twitter.  She’s talks with us about how she turned her hobby into a work from home job that pays the bills (or at least some of them).

She’s a self-taught baker with a passion in baking since childhood.  She worked as a graphic artist for 15 years before starting a cake business in 2007.  Lise excels at making elaborate wedding cakes and creative party cakes in the Ace of Cakes style, like a camera, a car, guitar, etc. In 2013, she was selected as a finalist in the Pillsbury Bake-Off.  Unfortunally she didn’t win the bake off, but that’s when her husband suggested she start a food blog. has grown up to 250K monthly page views all from sharing her love for baking with the world.

And now Lise shares with us here on The Get Foxy Show!

Ideas covered in this episode:

  • Every job you hold teaches you a lesson you can apply later in life
  • How hair extensions help her feel foxy
  • What books can help you get foxy
  • How staying stylish can help you expand your repertoire
  • How watching Netflix shows can help you find fashion ideas when you’ve been out of the game
  • Having chocolate (stevia sweetened) every day
  • Skinny and low-carb recipes that taste amazing
  • Dancing is a great way to get feeling cute and sexy
  • Who embodies foxiness in Lise’s world

Lise has graciously shared some of her scrumptious “skinny” recipes with us. Just click on the photo to get the recipe! Thanks Lise!

Easy Peanut Butter Cups

Silver Dollar Pancakes

Ham and Egg Cups

Banana Split with Nice Cream

Mexican Pizza (Low Carb)

Skinny Blueberry Cheesecake Bars

Ep. #32 – Lisa Avery – The Power of Positive Psychology

Lisa Avery - Positive Psychology

Positive Psychology is so much more than just looking on the bright side!

As a Positive Psychologist, Coach and Writer, Lisa Avery helps individuals connect with the unique passion and purpose that drives their personal and professional success. She’s fascinated by what propels a person to pursue their vocation, entwining their innate strengths, values and interests to serve both themselves and the rest of the world. Additionally, she fuses the art of Coaching with the science of Positive Psychology to help individuals gain the clarity, confidence and courage to become all they aspire to be.

Lisa is such a bright spirit! And, her lovely British accent just shines in this interview.

Ideas covered in this episode:

  • The difference of Traditional Psychology vs. Positive Psychology
  • Learning how to align with your authentic self
  • Negative Emotions are a real and necessary part of life
  • Processing negative emotions
  • Emotions = Energy In Motion
  • Cultivating a deeper sense of Happiness
  • The Thoughts – Emotions – Behavior Cycle
  • Not every thought you think is reality
  • How you talk to yourself creates your identity
  • Every positive emotion we experience opens us to more positivity
  • Foxiness = getting “naked” with yourself
  • P.E.R.M.A.

If you’d like to learn more about Lisa and her work click here:

Ep. #31 – Amy Lyle – Fail and Succeed

Amy Lyle - Fail and Succeed

Amy Lyle demonstrates we can Fail and Succeed.

Studies show that more woman than ever feel like they don’t fit in. The sanitized, filtered Social Media posts of people’s best selves can be intimidating. No one dares share their imperfections and failures. Or do they?

Enter Amy Lyle, a comedian/screenwriter and author in Atlanta who has taken a whole different approach. After being rejected by a Hollywood attorney, she wrote an entire book about her FAILURES! Subsequently, she shares her most mortifying moments- from getting divorced to pooping her pants.

Listening to this episode of The Get Foxy Show will make us all feel a lot better about ourselves. Thanks Amy! We can Fail and Succeed!

Ideas covered in this episode:

  • Comedy can bring you through tough times
  • Lifting others up can lift yourself up
  • Your failures can endear you to others
  • Genuine Authenticity
  • Dealing with Critical People and Haters
  • Writing and Art must have an impact
  • Taking your passion and making money with
  • Getting people to talk about their failures
  • How to stay foxy

Click here to go to Amy’s website


Click below to get Amy’s book


Ep. #28 – Meghan Renton – Dangers of Breast Implants

Meghan Renton - the dangers of breast implants

The Dangers of Breast Implants

Meghan Renton is a 32 year old mother of three beautiful boys and a hospital Social Worker and working on her Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy. She grew up on a ranch in Livermore getting dirty, being a tomboy, without a worry in the world about her body. But, after breastfeeding three children, her body changed and so did her insecurities. At that time she was in the best shape of her life but as with many women was insecure about her appearance. And there, she made a decision that would impact her life and health, she got breast implants. Fast forward three years and countless doctors visits, she got them removed. Learning a big lesson on self-love, Meghan felt the need to share her story with others, and I was compelled to have her share it.

Some of the ideas we cover in this episode:

  • The Quickness and Glossing Over of Medical Consents
  • Self Esteem issues
  • Subtle symptoms of toxicity: daily fatigue, acne, joint aches, etc.
  • Healing Breast Implant Illness FaceBook page
  • Hashimotos Thyroiditis 
  • “A monster was inside of me”
  • Fake body image vs Real body image
  • Honoring yourself no matter what your breasts look like
  • Shame, guilt, and sharing your story
  • Self love is foxy

This a subject that we don’t hear much of in the media today. Know that you’re created perfectly imperfect. You have an innate beauty that you were born with.

If you’re considering breast implants, do your research.

Deeply ponder why you’re considering this procedure. Take time for self-examination and determine what your true motivations are. If that motivation comes from a lack of self-love or self-esteem, I encourage you to address this first before you risk your health and wellness.

Ruptured Silicone Breast Implant - the dangers of breast implants
Meghan’s ruptured breast implant that was leaking silicone and growing mold inside her body.

This situation is more common than we think. Just 3 days prior to putting this show together, the following story came across my email:

And two days prior, a British documentary show called The Ugly Side of Beauty popped up on my Netflix feed. If you have Netflix, I highly encourage you to watch it.

Here at The Get Foxy Show, I want you to be happy and healthy. Because health is beauty. And beauty is foxy!


Post Script: A few months after this episode went live, I was alerted to the PIP Implant World Victims Association. Breast Implant issues are a worldwide problem. The PIPA is here to help victims all over the world. Learn more here. 

Ep. #27 – Stacy York, LCSW – Emotional Regulation of Mom and Child

Stacy York - Emotional Regulation -

Emotional Regulation is key for both Parent and Child.

My wife, Emily, once told me that “A mother is only as happy as her unhappiest child.” That really stuck with me. The ability to engage in Emotional Regulation is key in keeping both Mom and Child happy.

On this episode, I chat with Stacy York, LCSW, a national speaker on issues related to abused, neglected and traumatized children – including how to educate and parent these children. She focuses on helping families build stronger relationships through effective communication. Stacy is Phase 2 Clinician Certified through the Child Trauma Academy to use the Neurosequential Model of Therapeutics. And, she’s the co-author of the book “Teenage Girls: The Guide to Health, Wellness, and Self-Esteem.” Throughout the hundreds of kids Stacy has worked with, she’s learned that healing takes time, compassion, and love. Stacy also serves as a Captain in the Wyoming Army National Guard. She’s a Behavioral Health Officer, working with Soldiers regarding mental health issues. And overall she’s just flat out an amazing person.

Some of the ideas we discuss:

  • Midlife crisis or Midlife clarity?
  • Should women be doing it all? Is it ok to ask for help?
  • Parenting is an illusion of control i.e. how not to kill your kid.
  • Emotional regulation for mother and child
  • Regulate, Relate, Reason
  • Your kid’s age related issues may trigger your own issues from that age
  • The importance of connection and truly seeing your kids

Get more information about Stacy and her work at:

Ep. #25 – Amber Currie – Homeopathy for Health

Amber Currie - Rocky Mountain Homeopathy

Homeopathy for Health

On this episode of The Get Foxy Show, Classical Homeopath, Amber Currie, owner of Rocky Mountain Homeopathy, talks about how to use Homeopathy for health. She explains what Homeopathy is and what it isn’t. She also tells how to use homeopathic remedies to get you better when you’re feeling sick, but also to prevent the illness in the first place. As you listen you’ll learn a couple remedies to keep handy at home for first aid and flu prevention. Amber also elucidates on BioSet and how it works in tandem with Homeopathy. And, of course, she gives her definition of what “foxy” is.

Find Amber here:


And thank you to our episode sponsor, The Turquoise Spur. Please click on the logo below to check out their excellent Western-inspired apparel. (Don’t forget to use the code FOXY10 at check out to receive 10% off your first purchase!)

The Turquoise Spur

Ep. #24 – Stacy Michelle – Sexual Empowerment Coach

Stacy Michelle - Sexual Empowerment Coach

Sexual Empowerment – you know that’s foxy!

Warning: This episode contains content regarding sexual practices. It may not be appropriate for younger listeners. So, if you have kiddos nearby, you may want to listen to this one through your earphones.

On this episode of The Get Foxy Show, I had to pleasure to chat with a woman who helps other women regain and experience their own pleasure on a much deeper level, Sexual Empowerment Coach, Stacy Michelle. During our conversation, we learn:

  • Stacy’s journey on becoming a Sexual Empowerment Coach.
  • What is Sexual Wounding.
  • What a Jade Egg is and what it’s good for.
  • The wonderful benefits of self-massaging the breasts.

Stacy’s special offer for you Vulpinistas

Stacy’s free gift to you is a 4-part video series entitled Awaken Your Orgasmic Potential: Four Keys to Sensational Sex. This series also contains four guided meditations to support you in your self-pleasure explorations. You can access that gift here:
If you want to connect with Stacy live join her for on Facebook LIVE for Pleasure Talk Tuesday which is every Tuesday at 1pm PST here:

This Episode’s Sponsor

And thank you again to The Turquoise Spur for sponsoring this episode. (Don’t forget to use the code FOXY10 at check out to receive 10% off your first purchase!)

Ep. #23 – Vicky Flint – Holistic Dental Hygienist

Vicky Flint Dental Hygiene Haven - Holistic Dental Hygienist

Healthy Teeth and Gums through Holistic Dental Hygiene

In Colorado, Dental Hygienists aren’t required to work with a Dentist. Thus, Vicky Flint, owner of Dental Hygiene Haven, is an Independent Dental Hygienist. For that, she’s a standout in her profession at large. But, she also focuses on treating her patients holistically, making her very unique indeed – a Holistic Dental Hygienist.

In this episode, we talk about how Vicky got into the work, what dental hygiene has to do with being foxy, and how to get away with not flossing.


And thank you to this episode’s Sponsor: Artesian Spring Oriental Medicine

Ep. #22 – Polly Letofsky – First Woman To Walk Around The World

Polly Letofsky

Following your passion is foxy!

On this episode of The Get Foxy Show, I chat with Polly Letofsky of My Word Publishing. She happens to be the first woman to walk around the globe. How cool is that! Polly knows all about how to follow her passion. And she discusses how she did it – from getting her initial inspiration, planning out her mission, and learning lessons along the way. She also talks about the kindness and generous support she received along her way. And, how her walk eventually inspired her to start helping others get their books out into the world.

If you’d like to read about her global journey, you can find Polly’s book here.